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James Green married Martha Gravitt
Conversations with Jan Knox-Researcher Extrodinaire!
knoxcolorado@gmail.com
Mary Frances, I assume you've found my family website. If you have, you'll see that my data does not list a Martha Sue Green as a daughter for James A. P. Green and his wife, Martha Jane Gravett, but a Martha Ann Green, who provably married William Thomas Link. I am not the only GREEN researcher who has this information. Mine originally came from the late Jackie Black, who was a great-granddaughter of James A. P. and Martha's through their son, Nathaniel Thomas Green who married Mary Emma Arrington and their son Edwin King Green, Jackie's father. Jackie lived in South Boston VA and had done extensive research on her family when we found one another back in 1985.
James Anthony Prichard Green's parents were Berryman Green and his 1st wife, Ann Prichard, daughter of Anthony Prichard and Hannah Jones, of Chester, PA. Berryman and Ann met when he was stationed at Valley Forge during the Rev. War.
My 3rd great-grandfather was Peter Green, one of Berryman Green's younger brothers.
What information do you have that leads you to believe that you descend from James A. P. Green. The only George T. Carter I can find in southern VA had a wife named Sally.
Conversations with Jan Knox
Jan,
I have indeed found your website and congrats, it is wonderful. My grandfather Joseph Alpha Carter and his sister Martha Ellen 'Mattie Carter Powell are children of George T. Carter and his first wife, Sue Green Carter: Another of George and Sue's children was (their first) was William Green Carter, Sr.. Then 'Susie' died (quite young) and George T. married her sister, Sallie Fannie, with whom he is buried. I believe 'Susie' died before my grandfather, Joe was 10 years old; my grandmother did not know her, but knew Sally Fannie and only knew that his Mother was Susie.
The marriage license for George and Sue shows her as Martha S.; [I have not obtained her death certificate, and am not sure one really exists]. This month, I visited Margaret Powell, who is now 97, and was the daughter-in-law of Martha Ellen 'Mattie' Carter POWELL and she gave me 'tin-types' of George and Sue, taken, we believe at the time of their marriage. I have traveled a long and circuitous route to identify her parents, as Martha Gravitt and her husband James Green. The Will of John King Gravitt is my main source; he lists the children of Sue Carter and calls them his grand-nephews and grand-nieces. There is also a 'legend' that my grandmother received money from a distant relative which allowed her to purchase a house, and rear her own children after Joe died in 1930. I suspect it is John King Gravitt, but have not proved it. Further, on the funeral record of my Grandfather, she lists his mother as Martha Gravitt. [who is of course, Susie and Sally's Mother]
I only furnish you with this information because 'Susie' is almost forgotten, and I feel strongly that we have an obligation to cherish their memories. She had such a short life, but left a legacy of kind, generous, and wonderful people, who are her descendants.
I have also searched the Halifax County deeds and find deeds where George gave some land to the children of his first wife, apart from this other children with Sallie Fannie. If you like, I can send you my copy of the Will, the photos, and I think I can dig up the copies of the deeds, too.
Sally F. and Martha S.
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Knox
12:34 PM (17 hours ago)
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Mary Frances, they're living with William James Gravitt and his wife, Lucy Ann Woody, in the 1860 census, ages 8 and 5. I have been unable to find James A. P. and his wife, Martha Gravett in the 1860 either in VA or NC--wouldn't be the 1st time someone was left out for whatever reason by a census take-one of my greatgrandfathers is not in the 1880 census for my home county, Henderson, in KY, yet he was married, had two little boys, and other family members are in the census, but he's not, even looked line by line. I had found Sally and Martha before in the census, but had not found parents for them. Neither of them is living with James and Martha in the 1870 census though their daughter, Martha, who is the same age as Martha S. is still at home, but she provably married William Thomas Link and she can be followed to her death in Danville on 8 Jul 1932.
Where are you? in VA? This needs more digging than I'm able to do on line. We just got home last Wed from a trip to FL and then up to northern VA where two of our daughters live, and will be heading to KY on 6/14 for a family reunion on the 22nd, then leave from there to WA state and be gone until about the 3rd week of July. Our 2nd great-granddaughter is due on 6/9 and her parents, who are both Army Captains, the mother is our oldest granddaughter, are stationed near Tacoma now. I'm planning on getting to stop at the library in Salt Lake on the way home, and will see what I can find there, but I also have quite a few rolls of Halifax co VA film on indefinite loan at the LDS branch library that I use down in CO Springs. We live in the mountains about 45 miles west of C. S. due west of Pikes Peak, at 8400 feet.
I did find Martha Sue's married to George though his middle initial is listed as P. instead of T.on 10 Jan 1872 in Halifax co. I wonder if their marriage record lists her parent?. His is listed on line but hers just has a W for the father, but for some reason on the free site, familysearch.org today, they're having problems so the complete record won't appear, at least for now.
There is a wonderful court suit in Halifax county over Berryman Green's estate where Anthony Green's descendants mostly sued the descendants of Berryman's 2nd wife, Nancy Terry. By the time, it was settled in the 1870s, it started before the Civil War, over the distribution of the slaves, all the descendants of Berryman are listed with their relationship. Your part of the family is not included. I'm wondering if Martha and Sally could be descendants of Nathaniel Paul Green and his wife Martha Warren, who are in my data base. I've never found a connection between Nathaniel and my Thomas Green--wish some male descendant would do a DNA test--but we've never had a clue as to whether Thomas Green Sr. had any siblings. Nathaniel and Martha had a son, Asa Judson Green who married Elizabeth Ann "Bettie" Blackwell, who was a daughter of James Henry Blackwell and Mary Pointer Green, who was a sister of James Anthony Prichard Green. Both of these families move back and forth across the line between Halifax co and Person co NC and that's also where you find some of their marriages.
I've only followed 3 of Nathaniel Paul, who mostly went by Paul, and Martha's children. I'll see what I can find on the others. If you do live in southern VA, could you check George and Martha's marriage record, also his marriage to Sally? Maybe one of them has parents for the girls?
I had big plans--again--to stop in Halifax co on the way north, but my husband ended up in the hospital for 2 days in Melbourne FL where we were visiting with friends--with a case of pneumonia and he wasn't able to drive on the trip up--I did it all, and needless to say was NOT going to ask to stop and check records at the Halifax CH! I've wanted for years to get into their chancery court records, which only turned up a few years ago--they're on film now but they did not give a copy to the state so you can't see the film at the State Library in Richmond, only in South Boston!
Jan
Mary Frances Eggleston
1:27 PM (16 hours ago)
to Knox
Jan,
You're way ahead of me. I have not yet pulled the marriage license from Halifax, and do intend to do just that to determine if her parents are listed. It just seemed so logical that John King Gravitt listed her in his will along with his other nieces and nephews, along with the Martha Gravitt reference in the funeral record. I am aware of the 1860 Census where both girls appear with their Uncles and the Woody girls whom they married. If I remember correctly, Mildred is also present on this Census and I knew that there was a possibility that these girls could belong to her, but I have never seen another record for Mildred. Compared to your's, my research has just begun.....I was sidetracked by my Father's Reynolds of Pittsylvania and have just had that research accepted and verified by the DAR and Colonial Dames. So, I begin on the Carter's. I am absolutely certain that Martha Sue is the Mother of these three children, and accepted what I thought to be a preponderance of evidence that their mother was Martha Gravitt.
I am in Fredericksburg, Virginia; just an hour from Richmond, and Washington, DC. I make brief trips to the Halifax area, but have found their facility and staff, less than helpful; and if I remember correctly, they will not let you 'touch' the early marriage licenses and charge $10.00 for a copy which they insist be 'certified'. The last time I was there, I was outraged. Of course, if that is the only way I can get this record, I WILL do it, again. I just feel that they think they have you by the 'short hairs'. No other Court House in the area, including Danville, Pittsylvania and Henry, and Bassett Historical Society, act in this manner. I have not found a record of Sallie Fannie's marriage to George. They often went to Person Co., NC or Caswell to marry and I am actively looking for that record. I supposed that when Susie died, Sallie Fannie came to help with the children and 'never left'. It seems logical, but it seems that they were married elsewhere than Halifax. My own Grandfather, (Joseph Alpha) was married in Milton. (Later found to be Petersburg)
One other little tidbit: Martha's and George T.'s marriage date is just one month before the birth of their first child (she is about 16) William Green Carter. William was definitely named for George's father, William George 'Buck' Carter and her Green parent, which also goes along with naming traditions of the time. Your thoughts that she may be Nat Green's child is also possible. I just want her to be remembered.
I appreciate your correspondence and hope you will add me to your list of correspondants. If you have a copy or a GEDCOM of the Black research, I'd forever be in your debt, for sharing that. Congrats on your upcoming new family members. And........should you again be in the Northern Virginia area, I would love to see you. My telephone is 703/823-8738. I'm nearly always at home......just a little agoraphobia keeps me in.
Conversations with Jan Knox
Knox
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Mary Frances, one of the sons of Nathaniel Paul Green and Martha Warren was William N. Green. He married Susan H. Gravitt on 24 Dec 1850 in Person co SC, per the NC Marriage Bonds, 1741-1868 found on ancestry.com, Bond #000107670, the bondsman was Richard Powel and the witness was Obadiah Faulkne. Think Faulkne should have an r on the end of it and Richard's last name was probably Powell.
Susan H. was the daughter of William James Gravitt and his wife, Lucy Ann Wood, per the 1850 Halifax county census and probably why Sally and Martha Sue were living with William J. and Lucy in the 1860 census. I'm presuming that at least Susan H. died before the 1860 and possibly William. I have one family connected to my husband where the Dad is not in the 1850 census, the 4 children were living with related families, but the Dad turns up back in that county and remarried in 1852 so who knows if William N. Green died or moved on leaving his daughters to be raised by family members.
We are probably going to do another upload to my website either later this week or early next week. It's always hard to find a stopping point for me. I've been researching for 40 years, started in the days when we wrote everything down and have so much I need to enter! It's hard to stay off the 'net though as I also have so many holes--one being so many women without surnames from finding the family originally in a census and also not having put in death dates for people as in William N. Green's. I'll see what else I can find on the family, and also the connection to John King Gravitt, think off the top of my head that he was William J.'s brother. I'll also see what more I can find about William J., am wondering if he or his wife might have left a will, or if the girls might have been listed in a deed?
Jan
Mary Frances Eggleston
William James died in the Confederate War, as I remember just several days af...
1:39 PM (16 hours ago)
Mary Frances Eggleston
3:14 PM (14 hours ago)
to Knox
Hey Again,
I checked the Census for 1850 and found the reference to Susan H. Gravit in the hh of William James. She appears to be a sister of William James, as she is 18 and he is 23. John K. is just 10. This means she is the d/o John Archer Gravitt. I did not have the downline for Nat Green, but he is an heir in the Will of John King and shown as his nephew (receives $500.) Now, I just don't know!
http://files.usgwarchives.net/va/halifax/census/1850/southern/479-899.txt
It still seems to me that all of the heirs in this Will are either nieces and nephews or grand-nieces and nephews. There is a bequest to Wm. G. (Sue's first child) and E. L. Blackwell for his wood saw with the understanding that they saw the pastor's wood.
My head is spinning around. I have only found 5 children of William James, all born before his death in 1865. I have not found that Lucy Woody remarried or ever filed for a pension, which I would have expected.
I'm going to pull that marriage license and see what it shows. I don't know if there are death records prior to 1885. Thanks again for all your efforts.
Conversations with Jan Knox
Mary Frances, because we live about 45 miles from the closest library that has memberships in the various on line research sites, I'm a member of many of them, starting with ancestry.com. I also belong to three sites with newspaper data bases too and these are just the tip of my ice berg! I spend hours every day on line, adding to my data base, as I mentioned trying to fill in 'holes." I'd be happy with anything you'd care to share with me also. I'm still hoping to add photos and other items that can be scanned, not only to my data base but to my website.
So far, I also do not have a marriage date for John Archer Gravett and Sarah L. "Sallie" Blackwell. There's a book out there on the Blackwell family, it may be one that's been digitized by the LDS. Unfortuately, some of the books they've digitized are still under copyright and can only be seen at a local branch of their library, it's kind of frustrating when I run into that! I have a death date that I found on line for John Archer Gravett of 1838, which means he either died before John King Gravitt was born or shortly afterwards.
Yes, this is addicting. I also tell newcomers it's like eating peanuts, very difficult to stop.
I also do not know the original spelling for Gravitt as I have it mostly as Gravett but think I'm going to change to one spelling and use the i instead of the e.
Keep me posted and I'll do the same.
Jan
Mary Frances Eggleston
6:12 PM (11 hours ago)
to Knox
Jan,
I feel like I've hit the 'jack-pot'. Attached are the tin-types I received recently. I never thought to see a photo of George, never mind Susie. They are from the family of her great-granddaughter, Laura, whose grandmother was Martha Ellen 'Mattie' Carter Powell. Until I found the Will and Deeds in Halifax, they never knew her name was Martha Ellen. She was always called Mattie, even on her headstone.
I also have the date of 1838 for J.A. Gravitt; I got it from an internet site on the Gravitts when I first began and was just learning how to Source. I saw the Will for J.A. Gravitt when I was in Halifax, but only recorded the Book and page. I will get a copy of that when I am again there. I have pics of Mattie upon her marriage too, but not scanned yet and more pics of George as he ages. I have installed my research on a site named Devin Timber.org as his research on the Pittsylvania Devins fit nicely into my Reynolds and then I just kept on and on and, well you know. There are photos there of George's boy, Joseph Alpha, my grandfather and his wife Mattie Frances Edwards., who is the d/o Sarah Frances Powell and James Edwards. The Powells and Carters have been alligned for hundreds of years.
Don't pay attention to the earliest Carter information re some of the lines. I found Dick Zieman's site and used that as a skeleton until I was able to connect my relatives. As it has turned out, much of it, especially relating to the Pittsylvania County Carters is very bad information. I am going to delete much of it outside my direct lines. Joseph Carter on GenForum has accumulated an amazing number of Carter documents and shares them with all. I just find it difficult to figure out which lines some of it relates to. If you have no objection, I will use much of your information as a skeleton for these families which I have not completed.
You will recognize George in the Batch A, 2480 and the other photo is of Mattie Carter Powell and her husband upon their 50th wedding anniversary. She was first married to Warner Powell who died after they had a bunch of children and then she married his cousin William Daniel 'W.D.' Powell and raised another group of children. W.D.'s son, Jimmy married Margaret Virginia Denny and their daughter, Laura is my age. I visit Margaret, age 97 when I go to Danville.
Thanks so much,
Mary Frances
Conversations with Jan Knox
book on Warren family
Knox
to me
Mary Frances, one thing I like to do is check books.google.com. I found one on "Warrens and Related Families of North Carolina and Virginia, 442 pp, published in 1990, the author is a Holland D. Warren. It apparently has some data on Hedgman Warren, Nathaniel Warren's alleged father, plus data on Nathaniel and Lucy Powell. It can be found at the VA State Library in Richmond, among other places, none close to me, needless to say.
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GRAVITT Line:
John Archer Gravitt and Sarah L. Blackwell
William James Gravitt and Lucy Ann Woody
Susan H. Gravitt and William N. Green
Martha Susan Green m. George T. Carter
GREEN Line:
Nathaniel Paul Green and Martha Warren
William N. Green and Susah H. Gravitt
WARREN line:
Nathaniel Warren and Lucy Powell
Martha Warren and Nathaniel Paul Green
POWELL line:
Charles Powell and Sarah Jane Ghoulson
Lucy Powell and Nathaniel Warren
These are what I refer to as "bits and pieces." I'll do some more digging and see what else turns up.
Halifax county did not use to be quite so bad. My Terry-Thompson cousin, Margie Brown, and I went to South Boston several times in the 1980s and early 1990s but she was known to the then County Court Clerk very well, who retired some years back, and also was friends with the late Mary Leigh Boisseau, who considered herself a professional genealogist so was well known at all the CHs. We think Mary Leigh spent more time at lineage society meetings than researching for people though. She must have belonged to almost every one that exists other than the Mayflower Society!
I'm in the DAR on William Terry and am a member-at-large of the Dorothea Henry chapter in Danville VA. I didn't really know any of the women in the chapter I first joined in CO Springs and don't know anyone in Danville either but Mary Leigh was a member there. Margie is a member at large also of the D H chapter. Margie used to live in Oakton VA and was a volunteer in the DAR lineage office. She found out that about a dozen women, in MS, had joined on the service of my William Terry, but actually descended from another William Terry who also had Rev War service. Margie closed the line, so then my William had no one and was going to be dropped as a Patriot. Luckily, for me, after I got my paper work together Margie helped as when you're a first person in on someone that others have joined on when they shouldn't have, the DAR is very leery. I'm in the process of getting the papers together to add a 3rd great-grandfather, Frederick Edwards, that no one has joined on, as a Supplemental. The home he built in 1790 is still being lived in--in Jefferson co KY. It just went out of the family, finally, about 4 years ago. The DAR Chapter there puts a really nice bronze plaque on the homes built by Rev War Patriots with a ceremony complete with fife and drum group with Rev War uniforms so they've been after me to get Frederick in as a Patriot. I had hoped to get a copy of his service in the NC Continental Line as he got land from the Governor in what became Sumner co TN, but will have to go with his militia service in Montgomery co VA. The NC State Archives will do nothing by mail even though I have the land warrant #. The 1st pro I contacted wanted way too much money but I may try again as I've found someone who charges $25 an hour with a 2 hour up front request. That was to be another stop on our trip up from FL last month that didn't happen!
We'll be back in VA in November, I think. One daughter, who lives in Fairfax Station, not far from I-95 and her husband started a family Thanksgiving dinner in 2011, but they're the grandparents of our soon to be next great-granddaughter so we don't know about this year. If not Nov., possibly Dec. With all 5 of our children in different states, one son in CA, one in ID, a daughter in PA, and 2 in northern VA, it gets kind of lonesome here when we stay home for Christmas! I'll definitely be in touch and let you know when our next trip to VA occurs.
My husband was in the Army for 31 years, hard to believe he retired in 1984 and has been "out" for almost 29 years on 5/31! We spent 16 years of the 31, off and on, on either side of D.C., either in MD or VA and I would have liked to retire there but he's originally from OR and hates hot, humid weather! So we ended up in CO when he was offered a job here.
Jan
Mary Frances Eggleston
Jan, I don't think that Susan H. Gravitt is the d/o William James. I think sh...
Knox
to me
Mary Frances,
Oops! you're right! Totally spaced out on everyone's ages. I have Sallie Blackwell Gravitt dying about 1848 so think everyone in the household is probably William James' siblings! Surely there's a deed or something in Halifax that would tell us. I'll try to get by the LDS library in CO Springs tomorrow and see what films I have on indeifinite loan that might be of help. I've found if someone owns land, it's almost better than having a will as not everyone gets included in a will, but with land, the heirs either sell it to one of their own and everyone signs off or they sell it outside the family and ditto! So far, I haven't located anyone with John Archer Gravitt and his wife, that gives a complete list of children.
One of my pet peeves also with ancestry.com trees, though I'm grateful to those who have put them up for all to see, are those people who make their trees Personal and may or may not respond to a message and tel you anything or let you see their tree. I have had cousins whose trees were there for all to see but who let family members add to them and they got to messed up that I have one cousin who took hers down. She said her cousin had it such a mess she didn't think she could ever get it squared away! Some people think that it's all on the 'net somewhere, but it isn't as you and I both know. I've never learned how to cut and paste so never get into that situation, though I have added data that I found later was incorrect and had to take it out. Hopefully I have most of it removed. One thing that happened with my site is I used PAF as my software for years and when we moved my data, apparently my nephew in law didn't check a box he should have so I ended up with duplications on births, marriages and deaths, and haven't found them all to delete as yet. I also had notes duplicated as in --------MERGED NOTE------ and the same data would appear. I spent a week last fall, every day, running every name in my data base looking at their notes and I hope I have all the duplictions removed. It was a manual thing where I just had to sit with my finger on the delete key to get it done! I have permission from some of my cousins to add or subtract from their trees but I don't. When I find something, I just e-mail them and let them add or delete.
One neat thing on line at the VA state library site called Virginia Memories, is the Chancery Court suit index. They're also in the process of digitizing all the pages in the suits. Some have a great deal of useful info in them, some for now is only an index of names. Needless to say, Halifax county has held on to all of theirs so they don't even have an index of names, just plain aren't listed at all in the list of counties, really a bummer!
Thanks for sending the photos. I love getting old pics!
Jan
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a Gholson site
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Knox
6:53 PM (11 hours ago)
to me
Mary Frances,
Linda Gholson has a very informative site to be found at:
familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/h/o/Linda-K-Gholsonhoffine/GENE1-003.html
That's the link for Anthony Sr. and Jr. etc. etc's part of the family. Apparently, Sarah Jane Gholson who married Charles Powell was the daughter of Anthony Jr. Some good info that would need to be doublechecked.
Jan
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